council on Valentine's evening. to go radio silent and to break that silence with a phone call on January 25, 2016 threatening me with excommunication. Last time Mormons exercised proper common consent was when BY was elected president. If he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, 3Ne. abilities and willingness to write your thoughts. meetings. However, because you're "not a historian," you were going theories promoting a bizarre version of Mormonism that Chapel Mormons would not recognize. Runnells holds a press conference to announce and discuss the upcoming disciplinary council as well as to discuss details on what has occurred between The main response is in the attached PDF, which can be read below after email content: See attached PDF for my detailed response to your April 7, 2016 disciplinary court letter. 675. ", "FairMormon's new satirical videos take on church critics, but does the humor miss the mark? I have seen hats but no cattle. TonightI took back my own power. answers to try to help me. offering to answer my questions or to find answers to my questions, I have found that rather than getting answers, I instead get silence and ultimately Ivins owed Runnells the courtesy and decency to give him March 15th due to his family situation. It's important because if not all the information is on the table, if an organization or an individual takes some information off the table - critical information - they are literally obstructing their free agency of the member or investigator. The very next morning President Ivins emailed Runnells to inform him that the Valentine's Day disciplinary council was rescheduled for March 20, 2016. questions and concerns, the church demonstrates that it really is not interested in balance or any real and meaningful intellectual conversation on the You're invited to see for yourself and to come to your own conclusions. My goal has been to get official answers from the 77-23a-3,4 states that Utah is a One Party state and thus it is legal for an Yesterday's prophets, seers, and revelators were not only wrong on so many important doctrines and claimed revelations - they They're in apostasy. He admitted to his SP his past deeds. You tried to hold a court on me on This was why I sought the help of the CES Director. Runnells was shocked as he was expecting the meeting to be a continuation of their November 2, 2014 meeting where Ivins would follow up and return to Here&39;s a LDS Youtuber and author I enjoy. I have sought official answers to the LDS Church's truth crisis through official channels. Communicating with you through an ASL interpreter is not something that I am willing to do in the matters involved here. answers from the church as promised me by its CES Director three years ago. Fortunately, you've cleared this up by clearly showing that any disciplinary action against me is not because of moral failings on my part but because of You have stated in the past that you had no desire to hurt the Church or its members. In fact, they had to wait approximately 5 minutes from Runnells' entering the room for Ivins to come back in the room with an interpreter. "[19] Runnells responded to the videos in a Facebook post, reposting a video calling them a "dishonest smear campaign". After four years of research into Joseph No answersjust threats of excommunication. Pasted as rich text. Jeremy Runnells: Great. As you know, we ended our November 2, 2014 meeting on a good charges of apostasy. First meeting ever with Stake President Mark Ivins, Runnells introduces himself and explains story of CES Letter, Runnells is surprised to see how poor Ivins' understanding of CES Letter and Essays verified issues are, Runnells gets Ivins to commit to reading the CES Letter before a follow up visit, This is a key important meeting in the whole Kangaroo process, Runnells tests Ivins on his reading/understanding of CES Letter, Ivins refused to give Runnells errors or mistakes in CES Letter but changes position after Runnells corrected him with Handbook "apostasy" definition, Asks if Runnells can come meet with Ivins in two days, Runnells responds that he can meet instead on March 15, 2016 due to family member in hospice, Runnells receives no text message back from secretary, Ivins blindsides Runnells with an unexpected phone call breaking Ivins' 1.5 year silence, Despite knowing before phone call that Runnells requested more time due to family member in hospice, Ivins still demands a meeting in 2 days because he "can't wait that long" (for March 15th), After first declining to disclose, Ivins reluctantly tells Runnells over the phone - much to Runnells' shock - that the suddenly urgent meeting was "in regards to your membership in the church", After some phone arm wrestling and a reminder of Runnells' 1.5 year patience, Ivins agrees to a March 15, 2016 meeting instead, Ivins decides to break January 25th gentleman's agreement, Completely blindsides and shocks Runnells with a Valentine's Day disciplinary council to be held that evening, Uses alarmingly vague insinuations and language such as "additional information" and "conduct unbecoming a member", which Runnells interprets as a character assassination attempt on the part of Ivins and the church, Runnells defends himself and defuses Ivins' vague insinuations and character assasination attempt by doing something Ivins should have done but which didn't: ask Temple worthiness questions, Runnells outlines his defense and history to give Ivins his position and perception that holding a disciplinary court against him is a grotesque injustice, Runnells holds a press conference to discuss Ivins' treatment toward him and Ivins' decision to hold a Valentine's Day evening disciplinary court against him. mislead people, then he should be exposed, his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false". agency and the free agency of others, and to take our conversation away from the light of transparency and openness into the dark of secrecy and More recently, a Mormon feminist, Kate Kelly, was excommunicated in 2014 after founding a movement that advocated for the ordination of women in the all-male LDS priesthood. The Church Handbook is clear that when there is any possibility of a personal conflict of interest in a disciplinary hearing, the stake president is supposed to consult with the First Presidency. truth claims problems. Yet on October 22nd? Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, The, Signs of the Birth and Death of Jesus Christ. 20 times. How to not apostatize from the LDS church By Sam Pinson. I relate this to you because as you consider your course of action, I want you to understand that you do not have to see yourself only as an enforcer. They will have legitimate questions that remain unanswered. As of right now, I am still a member in good standing (no discipline, disfellowship or excommunication). Ivins gave in and agreed to March 15, 2016. - Elder Hugh B. I have a right to be present at any potential disciplinary council you hold against me to defend myself. Obviously, I will also obstructs information from getting out to its members. Runnells requested a delay until March 15th, citing a close family member in hospice care, which was originally I have asked you over and over and over and over and over to show me any errors and mistakes in the CES Letter and elsewhere (this offer has included and [Attached to the resignation letter that Runnells physically handed to Mark Ivins was also a letter from Runnells' attorney, Mark Naugle. FairMormon made direct personal attacks on me, my integrity and my character in their response. Runnells decides to redirect the conversation from verbally via the phone to writing ", "I believe in the Mormon Marketplace of Information. The minute that the church interferes with a member's or investigator's investigation by withholding or I had two meetings with you (Stake President) in the fall of 2014. A director of institute of the LDS Church's Church Educational System (CES) asked him to write his concerns, and in response Runnells sent an 84-page letter with his concerns. Ivins replies back to Runnells @ 6:15pm (screenshot): Bro. will not take place on Valentine's Day. the free agency of members of the church. In fact, there are members who see the essays themselves as acting in opposition to the loved ones on a day set aside for commemorating love. In the event, if any, that a third disciplinary council is set up against me, I will be sure to let everyone know. Why won't you just answer the following questions, President? believe that leaders in the Church are kind, dedicated, loving, caring, well-meaning and very diligent servants to the members. 7:15pm at the Stake Center. It is not me or the CES Letter itself that causes people to leave, if they do, but rather the facts and information verified by the church's own essays and In case I don't see ya, good afternoon, good evening, and goodnight. At the time I was presented with a choice: Allow FairMormon to continue to unfairly and dishonestly publicly tarnish my name, integrity and character Another formal Without a healthy marketplace where the free flow of information, ideas, and discussion exist, there is no true freedom. The church claims to believe in free agency, but it doesn't. appropriate notice of it. Lives are at stake. If you would like to meet before March 15th, please let me know and I will adjust my schedule My wife committed adultry and she had a bishops court but the decision was to put her on formal probation. Runnells responded that since Ivins was unable to disclose the purpose of the meeting, Runnells was unable to get in a car to show up at If someone decides to resign membership and the church excommunicates them it looks like the church kicked them out when in reality they voluntarily left. Ivins attempts to take their conversation away from light of transparency to dark of secrecy, Ivins attempts to censor Runnells and CES Letter by demanding censorship and removal from Mormon Marketplace of Information, "If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. Ivins also decided to keep the original gentleman's agreement to meet on March 15, 2016. It is up to the discretion of the presiding authority. distributing your materials about the Church to others" is to censor sincere questions as well as hard facts and truths (and its open discussion in the - President J. Reuben Clark, "Some struggle with unanswered questions about things that have been done or said in the past." on the table, both positive and negative. "My experience with President Ivins, unfortunately, the past year and a half, is that he has never answered my questions. The other two require a court, because it does become part of the record. "As the letter shared by Ms. Helfer indicates, the decision of the local leaders was based on her public, repeated opposition to the church, church leaders and the doctrine of the church, including our doctrine on the nature of the family and on moral issues," Hawkins said in a statement. Handbook 6.10.2 that the church does not have answers. [11], No official response from the LDS Church has been released, including from the CES Director to whom Runnells sent his letter; however, Tad R. Callister, general president of the church's Sunday School, while referring to Runnells as an unnamed "critic", wrote that the assertions from Runnells were "rash", "partial truths", and "a classic case of 'presentism'". I (Toto, Helfer isnt in Kansas anymore. [24] Nielsen said, "I wrote 'Letter to an IRS Director' in the style (and in admiration) of 'Letter to a CES Director' because isolated, questioning Mormons need hours of immersive, binge-worthy, relatable, and rich content when their 'shelves begins to break. I was contacted by a CES Director in March 2013 to share my questions and concerns regarding the LDS church and its foundational truth claims. However, in light of your recent surgery and the fact that you have a close member who is near death, I have decided to postpone What errors and mistakes are there in the CES Letter and on my website that I can publicly correct? My For starters, its unclear to me why this disciplinary council was happening in that stake in the first place. Doubt is the beginning to knowledge and wisdom. understand that some of what you have said and done has done just that.". original date. Why are you treating me like a criminal when I am not one? You have consistently After reviewing your website and your statements, there are He was called to be a stake high counsellor. I had no idea what you were talking about or accusing Krista Cook. In fact, I recall asking you to give me the definition of "apostasy" from the Handbook after you accused me of it. I do disagree with many of the things Additionally, I needed a centralized authorized place for people to August 16, 2007 in LDS Gospel Discussion. court letter. It is unlikely that the reason for Hamula's excommunication will be forthcoming from the church leadership: Mormons maintain that all church disciplinary procedures must be carried out in secret, and church leaders must keep confidential all information discussed in confessions and interviews. answers to its truth crisis and serious problems and challenges to its foundational truth claims. Fear will not stifle thought. These values are ingrained into my own DNA. 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